I don't understand the logic. I've been vegetarian all my life but veganism just doesn't make sense to me. How can consumption of dairy products or eggs that aren't even fertilized (and are hence not even alive) be perceived as cruelty to animals? I don't mean to offend anybody, and I apologize if my question enraged you, I just want your opinion on this and want to know why is it that vegans decide to live on such a restricted diet.|||Regarding dairy: first and foremost, we do not need dairy. No mammal, humans included, need to consume the milk of other animals, no does any mammal need to consume any mother's milk after the infant breast feeding stage. In fact, consuming milk, especially that of another animal, is not a healthy thing to do simply because we are not designed for such a thing. If that is not enough for you, remember that cows are mammals, and like all other mammals, humans included, they do not produce milk unless they are with baby. So, how do you get milk from a cow all year around? Either always keep her pregnant and with baby (and steal the milk from the baby for your own use) or inject hormones to fool the cow's body into believing that it is with baby. Also, where did all these cows come from? They have been bred in captive. That is, cows are either rapped or artificially inseminated. Baby girl cows are kept for their milk, the baby male bulls are thrown into the grinder and made into cat food (that's what they do at the local dairy farm near my home) or put in a cage and not fed any iron or mother's milk to keep their meat white and soft and then they are killed, chopped up and labelled "veal" (aka baby meat). Eggs? Eggs are produced the exact same way milk is produced, only the product is different. Male chics are thrown into the grinder, females are injected or fed pellet food with hormones and also artificially inseminated to produce more chics. Chickens are like most all other animals, they give birth in the springtime, not all year around. Giving constant birth to eggs all year long puts a terrible amount of stress on the body and basically sucks their energy dry thus they live short lives before being sent off to become fried chicken. Doesn't matter if they are organic free range or not, the process is the same. Keeping them in a cage or allowing them to run around the back yard makes no difference in my eyes. Anyway, there are so many videos out there that show the daily abuse these animals receive -- and why not? Who cares what happens to them anyway, because they are all going to be killed soon, so who cares how they are treated before their death? Right? Who cares if they have been in a cage their whole lives, who cares that their babies have been taken away and killed too. They are just stupid unfeeling animals -- they can't even talk, so they must be so very stupid, and they don't feel pain anyway, right? Anyway, that's my take on it. And being vegan is not restricted in my view either. Sure, okay, meat, dairy, eggs, sea food... four things. I was never big on eggs, and never liked seafood.... so that narrows it down to two things that I removed from my diet -- animals and animal products. Two things. It's nothing.|||It doesn't have to make sense to you. You made your choice to be vegetarian, and that doesn't make sense to the general population, but you chose it anyway. Vegans have their reasons for making their choices, and omnivores have theirs. I am allergic to eggs, and therefor basically forced to go vegan, but it is neither a restricted or boring diet. There are many fabulous vegan foods. No offense to you either, but you are being as closed minded to veganism, as most people are to vegetarianism. Its just a choice, and not one that needs to concern you, if you are not embracing that particular type of diet. Some people are just put off by consuming animal products, the same as you are put off by consuming meat.|||Take it from me - a girl with little self control over what she eats ;), I do not feel restricted at all. I can eat everything you eat, just from different sources. I am currently trying out raw veganism, I take that you would think that is the extreme of all extremes, last night I enjoyed raw zucchini "Noodles" in raw homemade marinara sauce. It's really amazing. People say to me "how can you have so much self discipline?" it's not about self-discipline, it's something I care about enough to make changes, ones which I did not have the slightest trouble making. The reason it is cruel in the production of dairy products and eggs is because it is mass production, cows AREN'T supposed to be milked, the are artificailly raped to become pregnant and then their babies are stolen from them after birth they mourn for days and they are kept tied to a machine which "Milks" them. They are then slaughtered after they are "used up". Which is about 7 years, when cows should really live for up to 30 years. chickens are confined to small cages and have their beaks clipped watch some of the vids' on youtube, it's awful.|||Why are you vegetarian? Is it because you are morally opposed to the use/ abuse of animals to provide food for human consumption? Are you unhappy with the cruel treatment of the majority of animals bred for food? Do you object to the fact that natural life cycles are tampered with to allow animals to bear huge ammounts of offspring for people to eat? Is it because you are opposed to the huge resource use needed to use animals to turn vegetable matter into meat for humans to eat? Is it because you don't like eating heavily processed food from giant faceless corporations? Is it for health reasons? If you consider taking any of these positions to a logical conclusion (or in your view 'extreme; conclusions), you'll probably find that the reasons for being vegan are just extensions of your reasons for being vegetarian. Or maybe you don't have reasons and are just vegetarian because that's how you were brought up?|||Most vegans choose the lifestyle based on moral and ethical ideals. Although taking eggs from a chicken does not harm the fowl the conditions they are subject to is wholly cruel and unnatural. Same goes with cows, bees, and such. Even so called free range and organic meats have a very broad definition in which they must follow to earn the distinction. Vegans however take it one step further and also shun all animal by products in everyday items such as shampoo, cosmetics, clothing items, and so on. You'd be surprised of all the animal by products lurking in your food!!|||Extreme? It's easy and it feels so good. I was a vegetarian, but I didn't want to take part in the breeding of millions of animals to be confined, cruelly handled and brutally slaughtered. Not eating dead animals is good for you, but who else is it helping? You are still saying you are okay with chick culling, veal farming, and everything else associated with the meat industry. You are still handing them your money to continue these practices. So I went vegan. It's not restrictive at all, I eat huge meals all the time and I love to cook so I'm always trying new things.|||you can still be vegan and eat eggs. it depends though where you get the eggs. my husband is a very VERY strict vegan and so are our friends. they raise chickens (without the rooster) and naturally produce eggs. since he can see how they are raised and knows that they are not being abused or that the eggs are not fertilized he will eat them. our friends though do not like the taste of eggs anymore so don't eat them. others wont eat eggs because they simply don't know where the product came from, it grosses them out or they are not using their heads. (just a joke) i HAVE to eat eggs because i have a b12 deficiency (b12 only found in meat and vitamins) but i am still a veggie. DAIRY is a whole different demon. but with the same aspects. dairy cows are generally treated like crap in the industry (plus their is puss in industry milk). but if you know someone who has a dairy cow and they treat it respectfully go for it. hope that helps some.|||www.chooseveg.com This website explains the horrors that the chickens in the egg industry go through, and the cows in the dairy industry. This is why vegans dont want anything to do with such a horrible industry. Its how the animals are kept. And yes, they do suffer from our consumption. Cows are artificially impregnated over and over, so they will continue to produce milk. The calves are immediately taken away from their mothers when born. They are killed for the rummen in their stomach (ingredient in most commercial cheese), killed instantly, or they are shipped to the veal farm. So when you buy dairy, you are supporting the veal industry. Chickens are kept in horrible conditions as well, often living in battery cages so small they cant turn around. The floors are slanted so the eggs roll into the catcher, so they permanently live on a filthy wire, slanted floor. When the cows and chickens production slows, they are sent to the slaughterhouse. Often their bodies are too worn out by the time they get there that they can only be made into dog food, chicken soup, or hamburgers. Free range is just as bad. So if you are against animal cruelty, but not against taking their products (eggs) you should get your own chickens. But the way I look at it, the eggs are menstrual fluids of a chicken, and the milk is lactation from a cow. Is that natural for you to eat? I think not.|||Its not the"cruelty" to unfertilized eggs, its just the living conditions. Many people go vegan because the egg laying and milk giving animals aren't usually treated very well, unless you buy free range and organic. Some people also do it for the health benefits, just like vegetarianism. And veganism isn't a RESTRICTED diet, its just cutting out animal products and introducing yourself to a whole new world of delicious non animal foods.|||God has given us everything.. Everything here is for us.. You have to respect people's food.. Yeah sometimes veganism is extreme (with some people) A non-vegan who eats everything will not make noise about the food he eats.. He will eat what he likes without boasting.. However, I have noticed the vegans will go on giving long lectures about the how non-veg food is.. they don't shut up and let anyone eat whatever they want to.. A person has to respect other decisions.. I have to agree to one thing: . . . They treat eggs cruelly. . . . . . . . Because the chef beats the eggs.!!! ha ha ha..|||Dairy supports the veal industry, which is one of the cruelest practices in the meat industry. Not to mention, there are numerous antibiotics and growth hormones in dairy. Yes, some companies are trying to change this, but it does not change the condition the dairy cow lives in. Nor does it change the fact that we are the only creatures on the planet that consume another animals milk past weaning. Eggs- I eat them. they are not fertilized. However, I only buy cage free. I buy knowing what happens to male chicks. However, I am making the transition to use mostly, if not all, eggs from my family's small backyard flock who are free to roam, live, roost, eat naturally, etc.|||It depends who is the person who makes the dairy products, and eggs. If your a person that have few hens free with no cage in the yard that's okay (if your not planing on killing them), but if you have hens in cages that's not okay. Think about it.... would you like living your life in a cage? Of course not! The same thing goes with the cows. I believe if cows are roaming freely in a really large field , and they are not going to be eaten there is no problem. But if you keep cows packed in stalls where they have no room to move that is abuse! I think veganism isn't extreme because usually who becomes one really wants to. Everyone tells me being a vegetarian is extreme, and it is not. ps L responded greatly!|||I'm a vegan not because of the conditions or feelings of animals. Dairy is nothing but fat and is not good for your body. We have been brainwashed into thinking that dairy is good for us because companies make billions a year on their dairy products. You don't know what you are eating when you eat dairy or meat. You could be consuming bacteria and diseases that are coming from the animals that produced it. I suggest reading a book called Skinny Bitc h by Rory Freedman and Kim Barnouin|||Veganism is not extreme. It is the 'proper' vegetarianism. Vegetarianism doesn't stop animal cruelty, it's just a halfway house. Consuming dairy directly supports the veal industry, and eating eggs supports the chicken meat industry. All the animals that produce food for you will be killed for meat and may have had a miserable life until then.|||vegan isn't all about animal welfare. Dairy is one of the worst things you can ever consume, probably worse than meat. The dairy industry does have a huge amount of cruelty involved too. A restricted diet? I eat a more variety and broad variety of foods than i ever did when i was a meat eater. I am not missing out on anything because i have so many amazing things i can eat.|||I'm neither vegetarian nor vegan but I drastically changed my eating habits about a year or two ago. I feel much better in many ways. I guess that anything that is healthy for a person and makes them feel better is not "too extreme." Veganism is not for me but if others threive on it, more power to them. Red meat, junk food and beer are the worst - and that's what I gave up! :)|||It sounds like you are concerned about cruelty to animals, and that's partly why you don't eat meat. I think that's admirable. The next step is for you to think about how dairy cows and layer hens are treated while they're alive. If you take the time to learn about this, you will understand why people choose to be vegan.|||A lot of the reason why people go vegan is because of the horrible conditions that animals are kept in, not just because they are killed Edit: I noticed someone down there say no ice cream for vegans.. actually, you can get plently of dairy free products including ice cream, milk, cheese and even chocolate! :D|||quite simply the reasoning is that cheese is made from animal products and hence the restriction same logic with eggs they are a product of a live animal and the process in egg farms could be viewed as animal cruelty. It is a personal choice.|||Im a vegie, and have been for about 5 months now, But vegans dont eat cheese eggs milk etc because it has been made by like animals sort of thiing, Milk from cows made into butter and cheese, Eggs chickens layed. And some animals kept in cruel conditions.|||my sister is a vegetarian and her girlfriend is a vegan. they fight about it all the time! Processed foods are the biggest no no to them. I love to walk by them eating chips and bring home burgers from my favorite burger joint. pisses them off. then they gang up on me. it's funny as he!!.|||yup i think so too....even i've been vegetarian all my life and i don't see the logic in veganism. Maybe its a fad, maybe its insane, i dont know. Bot too extreme it certainly is.Atleast I think so.|||i can't be a vegan either. it seems too drastic to me too. so i'm stcking to vegetarianism. i'm sure vegans have their arguments for their choice and i respect their choice.|||The extreme would rather be some vegans not eating mushrooms, since that doesn't really belong to the plant category.|||It's about how they are treated while they are alive. Laying hens get their beaks cut off, and other things happen that cause them a lot of pain.|||Too extremely ethical? or too extremely healthy?|||i use to have a vegan roommate, she was a little too hardcore about it and tried to push it on everyone.|||if you dont want to continue then quit it as it doesnt have any sense.|||not really. Go to youtube and type in "Egg and milk industry)|||Hello Kireina, 1. looks like u r caught in fades like everyone else in this world. 2. First of all many diets have come and gone, what stays with u is what u like and what ur taste buds are made for and ur stomach loves to care. 3. Ego is a HUGE things. It wants to engulf everything around. So whatever i do i would consider it the only right thing in this world and start thinking why others are not doing it and start doing things so that other do it the same way. This is how religions and sects are born and they change life for many. 4. Tell them milk contains bacteria, it is non-veg and u will get a bounce. Tell them that by poultry and animal husbandry much animal life and genes are preserved and it is not against nature and u will find people asking u what is ur share. 5.So at the end of it what u feel is correct, any thing that is pursued forcefully is innately incorrect and extreme. 6. Eat what u like and tell ur mind and soul to enjoy it because this is what God GAVE u today. all the best.. happy gastronomics|||I agree, I think veganism is a bit too extreme... I'm a veggie [and ive been told countless times to stop being so] and I do think that'd be too extreme, what can you eat... I mean, no icecream.. XD

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