veganism: debate|||OoOoO someone wants to stir up some trouble in the vegetarian/vegan forum... just kidding... People have to do what works for them, I don't contribute to the consumption of any animal products... That is what's right for me. Oh and I just wanted to add what I thought about the idiot that posted about vegans not getting their Bvitamins...There are ways to get Bcomplex vitamins w/o eating animals... You should really know what you are talking about before you make posts like that...|||why would it be to far? millions of healthy people are vegans... why must we have cheese and egges? calcium can come from almonds, protein from all nuts, beans, seed, and other vaitamins from sea veggies.|||I understand veganism and vegetarianism, but I think when it comes to vegans thinking vegetarians are not doing it for a good reason or what have you, I think that's wrong of them.. I mean being a vegetarian is way better than being nothing right? It's less people eating meat and that's a start for a person. I myself could never succumb to veganism, it's just too much effort. I've tried being a vegetarian plenty of times, and I practically am one right now, but not purposely.. I just don't feel like eating meat that often. And of course, slaughtering animals is.. sad.|||Interesting question. I personally don't care to judge people as hypocritical or not based on their diet choices, I know plenty of meat-eaters who love animals and own pets, and some of them feel bad about eating meat and cut down on their own will, which I appreciate because I know that can be difficult. I've been born and raised as vegetarian (though I've accidentally eaten meat by-products like gelatin without my conscious knowledge) and over the past few years I've been taking a closer look at my lifestyle and decided that veganism reduces the demand for animal cruelty even more. Given that, I made it a point from then on to buy and eat only vegan food to the best of my ability and avoid leather shoes if I see alternatives. My clothing already was animal-product free, I think, so that was all right. I don't think vegetarians are hypocrites, but it makes me cringe when I see some vegetarian family members wearing their huge leather handbags, perhaps not thinking about where those bags came from. (I used to have a leather handbag I wore around a lot, a gift from a former roommate, but I eventually got rid of it and walk around with a cotton handbag after that.). My relatives actually had leather (pleather?) couches in their living room, and I really wanted to say something about it but thought it would be better to be polite and shut my mouth. My concerned family members think that veganism is a bit too far though. They appreciate my sincerity and interest and conscientiousness in this regard, but feel like I shouldn't worry too much about every single item and whats exactly in what (as long as its vegetarian). Last month, for my parents' birthday, rather than easily buying any crappy junk food cake close by, I drove 18 miles for a healthier, vegan cake. But it was worth it as my whole family loved it, even though they knew it was vegan. My mother and sister, in particular, though, think that being vegan is not healthy, esp. for women. They think that the calcium and protein are not derived and digested as well from soy products and that organic milk and yogurt are the best, most natural way. In all honesty, I think this argument can go either way and I choose to sit on the fence, more towards veganism being too far. Don't get me wrong, I make every effort to eat and live vegan, but my father offered me some hot milk with turmeric for my sore throat and insisted that I have it or that he'd be unhappy. He meant well, wanted me to feel better, and I wasn't about to waste his efforts and the milk, so I drank the two gulps of it, feeling bad about the cows as well. Again, I don't think vegetarians are hypocrites, as different vegetarians have different reasons behind being vegetarian, and it doesn't help labelling/stigmatizing people based on food habits. If they work in a meat shop or as a butcher, I'd feel bad for them, in that they're living that sort of conflicting lifestyle, but unless they're preaching about vegetarianism to others, I wouldn't call them hypocrites. Perhaps its not their choice to be stuck doing those jobs. Even vegans must have unwittingly owned animal-product stuff while vegan. Also, what about vets and all the people that own pets but eat meat? If they're not vegetarian, would you consider them to be hypocrites?|||Mmmn, not sure! Maybe I should state my use in order that my answers are more explained - I eat meat from farms but drink nothing but soya milk because of the growth hormones present in cattle's milk. I wonder what would happen to those animals that are currently farmed in order to receive their goods - why care for and breed cattle except for their milk and meat? Why care for and breed pigs except for their meat? etc...|||Veganism and vegetarianism I think are too different things in my book. A Vegetarian might be one because of health reasons. and might not care about animals at all Hitler (I heard on the Discovery Channel) was a vegetarian because the nazis were all about creating a generation of fit and healthy Aryans to take over the world. That is not to disparage Veggies just an (Extreme) example of some one who was being a vegetarian for health. Meat can Contain alot of things like antibiotics or hormones that people could be sensitive to so even if they liked meat they cannot eat it. Vegans on the other hand are making a stand in principal not to use animals in any way it is a life style choice or to some -as far as i can see- takes on an almost religious intensity as this is a matter of personal morality vegans would probably see vegetarians in the same light as meat eaters just not as bad. long story short NO it all depends on why you are a vegetarian and what your attitudes to the use of animals is|||To me it all depends on what people want out of being a vegetarian and why you want to be one. Some people feel healthier when they don't eat meat, or find it to be a convenient way to cut reduce fat intake, or just like the challenge. Other people feel bad about eating animals, and still other people feel bad about "enslaving" animals for our gain, etc. Probably the best thing to do is not to worry about who is hypocritical and who isn't, but to just live and let live. What good can possibly come from trying to convince a vegetarian who eats eggs that he or she is a hypocrit?|||Depends on the reasons for becoming vegetarian. If someone becomes a vegetarian for animal rights reasons, I suppose you could say (in the most strict sense) veganism is the only way to go without being hypocritical. But, if someone becomes a vegetarian for any other reasons (health, etc.) then being a vegetarian is in no way hypocritical. Personally, I have never met anyone who was a vegan for anything but animal rights or religious reasons. Certainly not health reasons....|||at the end of the day its how you feel about it !! you should eiter be one or other so i think its ok|||Well, my primary thought process in this debate would be this... I could possibly be convinced to become primarily (though probably never entirely) vegeterian for my own personal health. the way I eat now probably IS a little unnatural (I may take the carnivore thing a bit too far...I just love burgers and steaks, though), and I may be headed for a coronary at 35. So, you might convince me that I should cut WAY down on the meat, and add a A LOT of veggies... What I cannot see doing is veganism, whose primary philosophy of not having anything to do with animal products is based on moral grounds (moreso than the simple health aspect). Some might call me a specie-ist, or animal murderer, or whatever other vile things the extremists will come up with...but I personally view my life, and that of others of my kind a little more important than those of other creatures on the planet (sorry, human nature...in fact, that's kinda nature in general, that whole "survival instinct" thing). This especially in light of the fact that if I took a cross section of vegans and asked them their opinion on abortion and embryonic stem cell research (the former I tend to think of as "human murder" and the latter I think will lead to the wasteful idea of creating a life to destroy that life so that the quality of another life can be improved), I'm willing to bet the vast majority call abortion a choice (while eating chicken eggs is torture and murder) and stem cell research is a fantastic, wave of the future cure-all for every disease known to man, and maybe a few God, or Nature, or Evolution, may not have come up with yet (and, now that I think about it, isn't the whole moral stand of vegans supposed to be that it's cruel to abuse one life to benefit another????) Maybe there are a few vegans out there whose argument is all life is sacred (and oppose abortion and embryonic stem cell research), and those might get me to hear the whole argument for veganism (at least until I realise that the human body is not nourished on sunshine and happy thoughts, and that, until someone devises a way for the human body to receive nutririon through photosynthesis, somethin's gotta die for me to live...). But if I get a response that a chicken egg is more important than a human fetus when I ask you (Vegan), I'm sorry, but I gotta shut down your entire argument as insane... Now, looking at this, I realise that I may seem to be bashing Vegans a bit. And I probably am. But while my venting may seem trollish, it's not intended to be...I really want for some of the folks out there who are looking at us "evil meat eaters" to really think about where some of us are coming from. I promise you I am not the only one in the world who has this very legitimate gripe about people leaning so far to the left that they can't seem to see the anti-human sh-ite they are throwing at us.|||What's hypocritical about picking and choosing what you want to eat? Vegetarianism or veganism are not religions. People choose to abstain from eating meat or dairy on ethical or taste grounds. Someone who ordinarily maintains a vegetarian or vegan diet should feel at liberty to partake in ethically produced products. The importance of the label of being a 'vegan' is academic. The mass GM production of soy can be just as damaging environmentally as meat production. Ethical consuming does not begin and end with meat.|||Well it is a choice of course. It is hard to be vegan because it is just difficult to find something to eat...everything has at least egg or cheese in it! I try to stay vegan but don't always make it...|||Good one.. can't wait to see all your responses. I am a VEGAN in my eating, not in my "life style". I believe the Human body is made to eat as close to natural as possible. I see in 1,000's of studies a Vegan diet is the healthiest of eating.. less of everything: Cancer(s), Heart disease,Diabetes, Obesity, Kidney, Liver diseases. We can survive eating animal flesh, dairy, eggs, but we do not THRIVE. My own Carbon Footprint is smaller because on how I live & eat. Will it make up for my neighbor, or even my son who does not live as I do..only time will tell. Slaint茅(to your health)|||Like some others have said, it's a personal choice. And you people who say it's stupid or insane, do your research and then come back with a mature opinion. I might go Vegan one day...but right now I'll stick with being vegetarian.|||Its not for everyone. Some vegans think that vegetarians are hypocritical, which I don't think is fair, we're under the same kind of 'group' and share something. But if you are vegan and manage fine, then kudos to you. But vegetarianism is just as good. All depends on a persons opinion I suppose|||I think it's a matter of personal choice. I don't think vegans go too far. Also, I think that if you're vegetarian for animal rights reason, you're very much a hypocrit. If you're vegetarian for other reasons such as health, then no, you are not a hypocrit. I agree with someone else that eating meat is less cruel than consuming dairy or eggs. Dairy cows and egg-laying chickens are kept alive longer than ones meant for slaughter. So thus, they're treated badly for a longer preiod of time than those meant primarily for slaughter since the ones meant primarily for slaughter will be killed off at a younger age. Not to mention the dairy industry directly contributes to the veal industry and that egg-laying hens are the worst treated animals out of the bunch. I'm a vegan and I just don't really understand how some vegetarians who do it for animal rights don't make the switch. It's not even unhealthy. You don't need milk. A billion chinese people seem ok with out milk, so I'd assume the rest of the world would be ok too. As for vegetarians that say they buy only organic and free range things, well you still can't be sure how the animals were treated unless you were there monitoring everything. The only way to justify eating eggs and having milk if you're a vegetarian for animal rights is if you own your own egg laying hens and a dairy cow.|||It depends on why you want to be vegetarian and what you feel is right. You have to draw the line somewhere. There are religious groups in India that don't eat potatoes or corn, because it comes from the ground and you must kill the plant to get it (although they eat vegetables that grow above ground). So it's just a question of what you feel is right. Remember, just because you can't be perfect doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Whatever you can do is better than nothing.|||One thing worse than a hypocrite would be a hypocrytical dictator, surely? If such people choose to eat - or not - as they do, that's for them. I don't mind that. It's when they try to brainwash other people and their children that I feel moved to go out and kill something with a face and enjoy eating it.|||Everybody has a different need and can choose whatever they prefer. I am a vegetarian and without eggs, cheese and milk, I wouldn't have the energy I have. And I dont criticize the people who eat meat, if their bodies are asking them for meat, then they have to eat meat, many wild animals do that too or they wouldn't survive. So its not fair to try to make the others like us, they have their own needs.|||I could agree that drinking milk directly causes cows to be killed ( and all associated bad husbandry ) However, its not going to stop me supportng veggies as they hae a very positive and direct impact of the fate of many animals. Veggies would be beter buying thier eggs direct from the farm gate. "free-range" supermarket labels are a joke Veganism is not "too far" for many people. I know and meet ( we run a veggie guest house ). They seem to live by those morals quite sucessfully. Dinosaurs "no guilt there" comment about drinking milk is a tad scary and ignorant of what actually happens...i would of thought a veggie wold know more about the facts.|||Eating meat is LESS cruel than "raising" and "caring" for animals that are used for eggs and dairy. They are both horrific and inexcusable but people are duped into seeing things as either killing or sparing lives. The idea is completely and utterly erroneous. If someone wants to dip their toes into the whole idea of compassion towards all animals but wants to close their eyes when the facts regarding animals used as production machines come into their view, I do see hypocrisy in it. Some people care but have been brainwashed too badly or have no skill in adapting to new ways of living. It is not their fault. It is the work of the corporate machine that we live in.|||it is a personal opinion. Everyone has their own reasons for eating that way, so it depends on their reason, whether it be cruelty to the animals, or preference for fresh foods.|||I am a vegan for health reasons and a lot of other people I have seen are for the same reason. I think it all depends on the person. If they have a full happy life then they aren't fanatical. I have noticed that people who are single and living alone are the fanatical demonstrating vegans. I know i'm stereotyping but it's something I have noticed. Its a good thing that there are people standing up for the rights of animals but they do go WAY to far sometimes.|||I think its on the personal tip. Its your choice. I do not believe killing animals to eat them is bad. I think God intended for us to eat meat. I think many people become vegetarians for the lifestyle. They feel healthier- has nothing to do with animals. I think the vegans are more of the people who do it for the animals. So to me if its about the animals then vegan is truly the way to go- bc it excludes harming them in any way. It cost more, and all the ones I have seen look like they could eat a lil more- but thats thier choice. Vegetarians- well I respect that too. I am thinking of becoming something like it- but I prefer to think of myself more of a naturalist. I eat meat, love chicken but at times it makes my stomache sick- so I resort to fish and eggs. I dont like the thought of horomones in my food so I dont realyl drink milk all that much. At the end of the day it doesnt matter. Like the guy said earlier- even animals eat animals, its a natural way of life. What you eat is your choice, there is no right or wrong, only preference.|||i love being a veggie yaay!|||i think it's really unhealthy the way some people are completely preoccupied about what their neighbor is eating. what ever happened to minding your own business?|||it's not too far considering there is a wide array of food that doesn't contain animals or their products. animal products contain far too much cholesterol anyway! it's all about changing your eating habits, learning about new foods and having fun. if whole cultures can do it so can one person|||depends the reasoning behind being either.. I dont eat any meat other than seafood, and when people ask why I chose to eat one animal over another and try to bring up arguments that fish have feeling too.. I simply tell them that I do love animals (who couldn't) but I also understand the needs and process of the foodchain.. I really dont care if a person eats meat or not, my choice is not a moral obligation to animals, it is because I have been studying nutrition and body digestion as a hobby for over a year now, I have found that our bodies can function very well if not better than if you chose to eat meat every day, .. Beef, and chicken and the likes can be consumed by humans no problem, but our bodies are still very dated in the way they work, we are only meant to consume meat very rarely as back in the cave days when you had to hunt for your own food.. It stays in the body and takes ages to digest, thus to keep our bodies nourished through times of famine, as we now in this day and age have an abundance of food around us we do not need the meat in our bodies to get us through such times, although I chose to eat seafood because it is digested in a different way.. I also have made the decision based on food prpaeration (take away and the likes) as I don't really know what goes on with my food their.. but I say each to thier own..for some people it's health reasons, other weight reasons, other say product from animals is alright aslong as an animal isn't killed it's ok, other eat meat but only organic or free range, and others choose to eat no animal products what so ever, other just dont like one type of meat, others it may be religious reasons.. but of it helps you to sleep better at night then I am all for whatever reason someone may have!!|||Vegetarian = sane, grounded in reality. A weird choice, but one you can live with. Vegan = insane, no rational basis whatsoever. You CANNOT live without B vitamins, and some can only be gotten from animal proteins. Those pills you take for your health... come from animal protein.|||I understand the moral claims vegetarians make against eating meat but animals do it, we are carnivores and have been eating meat for centuries and you can't tell me that in ancient times when it was a much more natural way of life that they humanely slaughtered animals. If anything it was probably worse than mass produced meat. If anything, eat all the meat you want and stop driving your car!|||Too far, just not practical. I even think that vegetarians should introduce certain meats into their diet. Im a vegetarian and thats what ive done.